Date & Time Stamp of the mails sent from Outbox - MS Outlook

[Ramnath]

When a mail is composed offline i.e. when not connected to the mail server
online in MS Outlook, the mail with the date & time when drafted is saved in
outbox which is correct. But later when it is connected on-line, the mail
from outbox is sent with the current date & time and not the one when it was
drafted.

This is a big issue for me. I have drafted the mail in the context of the
day when I had written the message. Eg. If I want to say, "As per the
discussions held today", this is with a context of the date when I draft this
mail but could not send the same on the day and hence placed in outbox. But
when the mail is sent on a different day, the context changes and there
occurs mis-communication.

What is the way out? In Netscape, this is taken care of.

[Nick]

Post by Ramnath
When a mail is composed offline i.e. when not connected to the mail server
online in MS Outlook, the mail with the date & time when drafted is saved in
outbox which is correct. But later when it is connected on-line, the mail
from outbox is sent with the current date & time and not the one when it was
drafted.
This is a big issue for me. I have drafted the mail in the context of the
day when I had written the message. Eg. If I want to say, "As per the
discussions held today", this is with a context of the date when I draft this
mail but could not send the same on the day and hence placed in outbox.
But
when the mail is sent on a different day, the context changes and there
occurs mis-communication.
What is the way out? In Netscape, this is taken care of.

Just put "As per the discussions held today (27 July)".

You could also write the date at the bottom of the email or at the top as
you would in an ordinary letter. After all, when one sends a letter in the
post there is a date in the body of the letter and a franking on the
envelope.

I think I have letters from lawyers where it might have added something like
dictated 25 July although the letter is dated 27 July. The same situation
applies as in your message where the lawyer has been talking about the
situation as pertaining on 25 July.

Nick

[Steve Cochran]

You are basically asking if you can fake the date when the message was
actually sent, and I don't think that is possible.

steve

Post by Ramnath
When a mail is composed offline i.e. when not connected to the mail server
online in MS Outlook, the mail with the date & time when drafted is saved in
outbox which is correct. But later when it is connected on-line, the mail
from outbox is sent with the current date & time and not the one when it was
drafted.
This is a big issue for me. I have drafted the mail in the context of the
day when I had written the message. Eg. If I want to say, "As per the
discussions held today", this is with a context of the date when I draft this
mail but could not send the same on the day and hence placed in outbox.
But
when the mail is sent on a different day, the context changes and there
occurs mis-communication.
What is the way out? In Netscape, this is taken care of.

[Michael Santovec]

As the others have indicated, OE always puts in the Sent date/time. No
way around that in OE.

As you've found out, some other mail programs put in the compose
date/time. I believe Eudora also does that.

As it turns out, OE is in violation of RFC 2822

3.6.1. The origination date field

The origination date field consists of the field name "Date" followed
by a date-time specification.

The origination date specifies the date and time at which the creator
of the message indicated that the message was complete and ready to
enter the mail delivery system. For instance, this might be the time
that a user pushes the "send" or "submit" button in an application
program. In any case, it is specifically not intended to convey the
time that the message is actually transported, but rather the time at
which the human or other creator of the message has put the message
into its final form, ready for transport. (For example, a portable
computer user who is not connected to a network might queue a message
for delivery. The origination date is intended to contain the date
and time that the user queued the message, not the time when the user
connected to the network to send the message.)
--
Mike - http://pages.prodigy.net/michael_santovec/techhelp.htm

Post by Ramnath
When a mail is composed offline i.e. when not connected to the mail server
online in MS Outlook, the mail with the date & time when drafted is saved in
outbox which is correct. But later when it is connected on-line, the mail
from outbox is sent with the current date & time and not the one when it was
drafted.
This is a big issue for me. I have drafted the mail in the context of the
day when I had written the message. Eg. If I want to say, "As per the
discussions held today", this is with a context of the date when I draft this
mail but could not send the same on the day and hence placed in outbox. But
when the mail is sent on a different day, the context changes and there
occurs mis-communication.
What is the way out? In Netscape, this is taken care of.

[Steve Cochran]

Well, that's interesting. Never saw that before.

steve

Post by Michael Santovec
As the others have indicated, OE always puts in the Sent date/time. No
way around that in OE.
As you've found out, some other mail programs put in the compose
date/time. I believe Eudora also does that.
As it turns out, OE is in violation of RFC 2822
3.6.1. The origination date field
The origination date field consists of the field name "Date" followed
by a date-time specification.
The origination date specifies the date and time at which the creator
of the message indicated that the message was complete and ready to
enter the mail delivery system. For instance, this might be the time
that a user pushes the "send" or "submit" button in an application
program. In any case, it is specifically not intended to convey the
time that the message is actually transported, but rather the time at
which the human or other creator of the message has put the message
into its final form, ready for transport. (For example, a portable
computer user who is not connected to a network might queue a message
for delivery. The origination date is intended to contain the date
and time that the user queued the message, not the time when the user
connected to the network to send the message.)
--
Mike - http://pages.prodigy.net/michael_santovec/techhelp.htm

Post by Ramnath
When a mail is composed offline i.e. when not connected to the mail server
online in MS Outlook, the mail with the date & time when drafted is saved in
outbox which is correct. But later when it is connected on-line, the mail
from outbox is sent with the current date & time and not the one when it was
drafted.
This is a big issue for me. I have drafted the mail in the context of the
day when I had written the message. Eg. If I want to say, "As per the
discussions held today", this is with a context of the date when I draft this
mail but could not send the same on the day and hence placed in outbox.
But
when the mail is sent on a different day, the context changes and there
occurs mis-communication.
What is the way out? In Netscape, this is taken care of.

[Michael Santovec]

You never saw that before because I got it wrong. That's what I
happens when I rely on my memory and what the poster claimed.

I should have gone back to my notes and tested it.

OE is doing it correctly and supplying the date/time that the message is
written to the Outbox. There are some other mail programs that use the
transmit date/time.
--
Mike - http://pages.prodigy.net/michael_santovec/techhelp.htm

Post by Steve Cochran
Well, that's interesting. Never saw that before.
steve

Post by Michael Santovec
As the others have indicated, OE always puts in the Sent date/time.
No way around that in OE.
As you've found out, some other mail programs put in the compose
date/time. I believe Eudora also does that.
As it turns out, OE is in violation of RFC 2822
3.6.1. The origination date field
The origination date field consists of the field name "Date" followed
by a date-time specification.
The origination date specifies the date and time at which the creator
of the message indicated that the message was complete and ready to
enter the mail delivery system. For instance, this might be the time
that a user pushes the "send" or "submit" button in an application
program. In any case, it is specifically not intended to convey the
time that the message is actually transported, but rather the time at
which the human or other creator of the message has put the message
into its final form, ready for transport. (For example, a portable
computer user who is not connected to a network might queue a message
for delivery. The origination date is intended to contain the date
and time that the user queued the message, not the time when the user
connected to the network to send the message.)
--
Mike - http://pages.prodigy.net/michael_santovec/techhelp.htm

Post by Ramnath
When a mail is composed offline i.e. when not connected to the mail server
online in MS Outlook, the mail with the date & time when drafted is saved in
outbox which is correct. But later when it is connected on-line, the mail
from outbox is sent with the current date & time and not the one when it was
drafted.
This is a big issue for me. I have drafted the mail in the context of the
day when I had written the message. Eg. If I want to say, "As per the
discussions held today", this is with a context of the date when I draft this
mail but could not send the same on the day and hence placed in
outbox. But
when the mail is sent on a different day, the context changes and there
occurs mis-communication.
What is the way out? In Netscape, this is taken care of.

[Steve Cochran]

Well then the poster was incorrect in the first place then?

steve

You never saw that before because I got it wrong. That's what I happens
when I rely on my memory and what the poster claimed.
I should have gone back to my notes and tested it.
OE is doing it correctly and supplying the date/time that the message is
written to the Outbox. There are some other mail programs that use the
transmit date/time.
--
Mike - http://pages.prodigy.net/michael_santovec/techhelp.htm

Post by Steve Cochran
Well, that's interesting. Never saw that before.
steve

As the others have indicated, OE always puts in the Sent date/time. No
way around that in OE.
As you've found out, some other mail programs put in the compose
date/time. I believe Eudora also does that.
As it turns out, OE is in violation of RFC 2822
3.6.1. The origination date field
The origination date field consists of the field name "Date" followed
by a date-time specification.
The origination date specifies the date and time at which the creator
of the message indicated that the message was complete and ready to
enter the mail delivery system. For instance, this might be the time
that a user pushes the "send" or "submit" button in an application
program. In any case, it is specifically not intended to convey the
time that the message is actually transported, but rather the time at
which the human or other creator of the message has put the message
into its final form, ready for transport. (For example, a portable
computer user who is not connected to a network might queue a message
for delivery. The origination date is intended to contain the date
and time that the user queued the message, not the time when the user
connected to the network to send the message.)
--
Mike - http://pages.prodigy.net/michael_santovec/techhelp.htm

Post by Ramnath
When a mail is composed offline i.e. when not connected to the mail server
online in MS Outlook, the mail with the date & time when drafted is saved in
outbox which is correct. But later when it is connected on-line, the mail
from outbox is sent with the current date & time and not the one when it was
drafted.
This is a big issue for me. I have drafted the mail in the context of the
day when I had written the message. Eg. If I want to say, "As per the
discussions held today", this is with a context of the date when I draft this
mail but could not send the same on the day and hence placed in outbox.
But
when the mail is sent on a different day, the context changes and there
occurs mis-communication.
What is the way out? In Netscape, this is taken care of.

[Michael Santovec]

I suspect that he was actually saving the messages to the Drafts folder
(not Outbox) and later when he opened the messages from the drafts
folder to send them, expected the messages to keep the date/time from
when he originally saved to the drafts.
--
Mike - http://pages.prodigy.net/michael_santovec/techhelp.htm

Post by Steve Cochran
Well then the poster was incorrect in the first place then?
steve

Post by Michael Santovec
You never saw that before because I got it wrong. That's what I
happens when I rely on my memory and what the poster claimed.
I should have gone back to my notes and tested it.
OE is doing it correctly and supplying the date/time that the message
is written to the Outbox. There are some other mail programs that
use the transmit date/time.
--
Mike - http://pages.prodigy.net/michael_santovec/techhelp.htm

Post by Steve Cochran
Well, that's interesting. Never saw that before.
steve

Post by Michael Santovec
As the others have indicated, OE always puts in the Sent date/time.
No way around that in OE.
As you've found out, some other mail programs put in the compose
date/time. I believe Eudora also does that.
As it turns out, OE is in violation of RFC 2822
3.6.1. The origination date field
The origination date field consists of the field name "Date" followed
by a date-time specification.
The origination date specifies the date and time at which the creator
of the message indicated that the message was complete and ready to
enter the mail delivery system. For instance, this might be the time
that a user pushes the "send" or "submit" button in an
application
program. In any case, it is specifically not intended to convey the
time that the message is actually transported, but rather the time at
which the human or other creator of the message has put the message
into its final form, ready for transport. (For example, a portable
computer user who is not connected to a network might queue a message
for delivery. The origination date is intended to contain the date
and time that the user queued the message, not the time when the user
connected to the network to send the message.)
--
Mike - http://pages.prodigy.net/michael_santovec/techhelp.htm

Post by Ramnath
When a mail is composed offline i.e. when not connected to the mail server
online in MS Outlook, the mail with the date & time when drafted is saved in
outbox which is correct. But later when it is connected on-line, the mail
from outbox is sent with the current date & time and not the one when it was
drafted.
This is a big issue for me. I have drafted the mail in the context of the
day when I had written the message. Eg. If I want to say, "As per the
discussions held today", this is with a context of the date when I draft this
mail but could not send the same on the day and hence placed in
outbox. But
when the mail is sent on a different day, the context changes and there
occurs mis-communication.
What is the way out? In Netscape, this is taken care of.

[Michel Merlin]

I agree Michael, OE is quite compliant. But the whole discussion
would have never happened if Ramnath (as millions others
probably) hadn't been mislead by the wrong name of the data at
stake: "origination date" is not precise enough, and its name in
the headers ("Date") is still worse. This name should be "Sent".

This should be changed IMO right in RFC
"3.6.1. The origination date field"
http://rfc.net/rfc2822.html#s3.6.1,
which will make it automatically forwarded it through all
email handlers, clients and messages.

So I suggest that this correction be submitted to the persons
and groups who *ACTUALLY* have the power to efficiently push
the needed change:

- submit it to MVPs and other participants in this NG;
- ask those who can to forward it to MS;
- ask MS to forward it to W3.

Indeed MS has much more probability to be actually listened to,
than any end user or other group has.

Paris, Wed 30 Aug 2006 09:58:25 +0200


----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "Michael Santovec" <***@prodigy.net>
Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/***@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl
Sent: Fri 28 Jul 2006 18:49:53 -0700 (Sat 29 Jul 01:49:53 GMT)
Subject: Re: Date & Time Stamp of the mails sent from Outbox -
MS Outlook

You never saw that before because I got it wrong. That's what I
happens when I rely on my memory and what the poster claimed.

I should have gone back to my notes and tested it.

OE is doing it correctly and supplying the date/time that the
message is written to the Outbox. There are some other mail
programs that use the transmit date/time.
--
Mike - http://pages.prodigy.net/michael_santovec/techhelp.htm


----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "Steve Cochran" <***@oehelp.com>
Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/B6571E88-6610-4CB5-BA19-***@microsoft.com
Sent: Thu 27 Jul 2006 16:48:09 -0400 (20:48:09 GMT)
Subject: Re: Date & Time Stamp of the mails sent from Outbox -
MS Outlook

Well, that's interesting. Never saw that before.

steve


----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "Michael Santovec" <***@prodigy.net>
Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/***@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl
Sent: Thu 27 Jul 2006 10:48:12 -0700 (17:48:12 GMT)
Subject: Re: Date & Time Stamp of the mails sent from Outbox -
MS Outlook

As the others have indicated, OE always puts in the Sent
date/time. No way around that in OE.

As you've found out, some other mail programs put in the compose
date/time. I believe Eudora also does that.

As it turns out, OE is in violation of RFC 2822

3.6.1. The origination date field

The origination date field consists of the field name "Date"
followed by a date-time specification.

The origination date specifies the date and time at which the
creator of the message indicated that the message was
complete and ready to enter the mail delivery system. For
instance, this might be the time that a user pushes the
"send" or "submit" button in an application program. In any
case, it is specifically not intended to convey the time that
the message is actually transported, but rather the time at
which the human or other creator of the message has put the
message into its final form, ready for transport. (For
example, a portable computer user who is not connected to a
network might queue a message for delivery. The origination
date is intended to contain the date and time that the user
queued the message, not the time when the user connected to
the network to send the message.)
--
Mike - http://pages.prodigy.net/michael_santovec/techhelp.htm


----- Parent Message (links are clickable) -----
From: "Ramnath" <***@discussions.microsoft.com>
Newsgroup: news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general
Message: news://msnews.microsoft.com/E82E2DB6-7653-4FD5-8685-***@microsoft.com
Sent: Thu 27 Jul 2006 02:24:01 -0700 (09:24:01 GMT)
Subject: Date & Time Stamp of the mails sent from Outbox -
MS Outlook

When a mail is composed offline i.e. when not connected to the
mail server online in MS Outlook, the mail with the date & time
when drafted is saved in outbox which is correct. But later
when it is connected on-line, the mail from outbox is sent with
the current date & time and not the one when it was drafted.

This is a big issue for me. I have drafted the mail in the
context of the day when I had written the message. Eg. If I
want to say, "As per the discussions held today", this is with a
context of the date when I draft this mail but could not send
the same on the day and hence placed in outbox. But when the
mail is sent on a different day, the context changes and there
occurs mis-communication.

What is the way out? In Netscape, this is taken care of.

[Robert Aldwinckle]

Post by Ramnath
When a mail is composed offline i.e. when not connected to the mail server
online in MS Outlook, the mail with the date & time when drafted is saved in
outbox which is correct. But later when it is connected on-line, the mail
from outbox is sent with the current date & time and not the one when it was
drafted.
This is a big issue for me. I have drafted the mail in the context of the
day when I had written the message. Eg. If I want to say, "As per the
discussions held today", this is with a context of the date when I draft this
mail but could not send the same on the day and hence placed in outbox. But
when the mail is sent on a different day,

I suspect by "placed in outbox" you mean that you opened your message
from Drafts and clicked Send? The thing is that when you do that you
are opening the message in a composition window so clicking Send
is similar to resaving it in Drafts which would change the timestamp.
In fact, you can also reopen messages which are sitting in the Outbox
and they will be in a composition window too so saving them would
update the timestamp even more. (I do this myself in order to make
sure that my posts have as accurate a message number as possible.)

So, what happens if instead of opening the message from Drafts
and clicking Send to move it to the Outbox, you just drag it to the Outbox?
I suspect that would preserve the original timestamp it had been
given in Drafts.

BTW to avoid any possibility of concurrency issues, especially
if you use an automatic Send/Receive timer, I suggest setting
Work Offline before you do this (and not use the option which
forces connect regardless of the offline state.) Then you can
use Send (e.g. Alt-T,S,S) to send your message(s) and be
more confident that it will only be sent once.


Good luck

Robert Aldwinckle
---

Post by Ramnath
the context changes and there
occurs mis-communication.
What is the way out? In Netscape, this is taken care of.